"Sheol" can also just mean "grave." I do think there's something to be said for the more traditional view you defend, but it's not necessarily entailed by the passage you open with.
Well, actually, the Greek word is Hades, the Hebrew word is Sheol, but I digress. It seems like a stretch to try and say this is simply saying they were buried alive because no where in God’s law is the punishment for a sin being buried alive.
God can punish wickedness however He likes. The wages of sin is death, and the mode doesn't have to be specified beforehand. As far as I can recollect, the Torah never says that venomous snakes are a punishment for law-breaking either.
Have you read The Chronicles of the Nephilim by Brian Godawa? It's a historical fiction series that is based off of The Bible and the Book of Enoch and expresses a lot of similar views to what you just expressed.
Like John said, I don't necessarily think that Sheol (which, based on your short essay, is equivalent to Hades/Hell) is in the Earth. If God is going to create a new Heaven AND a new Earth, what does that say for your supposition?
A. Sheol/Hades is NOT HELL. I put the verses I would use to argue this in the essay. Christ descended into Hades (so far my point isn’t proven), and he brought out some souls. So the elect wouldn’t wait in Hell. At least I don’t think they would, but you could change my mind with biblical proof.
B. That seems to go right along with it! If He’s going to create a new heaven and earth then Sheol won’t be inside the earth anymore! I don’t see that proves your point at all, let me know if I’m misunderstanding.
I think, what you're saying so far is that (correct me if I'm wrong please!), before Christ descended into Hades, Hell & Heaven were basically one place (as Greek mythology has it, there were two separate places in Hades: Tartarus (the pit) and Elysium, where those who had 'done good' would go). When he rose from Hades, he separated Heaven & Hell and created a rift between them as had not existed before?
But Sheol doesn't necessarily need to be inside the Earth. The Bible describes Heaven as 'above us' several times but that doesn't mean that Heaven is literally up there, sitting on a cloud somewhere (of course it could be, for all I know, but I rather think it isn't). Sheol is 'under us' but as John mentioned, Sheol can also mean 'grave.' The fact that it's under us doesn't mean it is literally inside the Earth beneath us.
Christ descended into hades and ascended into heaven, so they are different. One is below and one is above. No? I’d be curious to know how you explain that! (This is a good conversation!)
This is super fascinating 😂 I never thought about it that way. My first instinct is to laugh at the argument, but logically it actually makes sense. I think I have such a knee-jerk reaction to it simply because I'm a modern-day evangelical still trying to work my way out of the distinction between "space" and "heaven", "alien" and "spiritual being", and a bunch of other things materialism has twisted.
I will say however, I've read the Space Trilogy. And if Lewis taught me anything in those books, it's that the spiritual realm is much closer and more real than any of us realize. We've all been effectively blinded by the "Enlightenment" and the advance of materialism.
"Sheol" can also just mean "grave." I do think there's something to be said for the more traditional view you defend, but it's not necessarily entailed by the passage you open with.
Well, actually, the Greek word is Hades, the Hebrew word is Sheol, but I digress. It seems like a stretch to try and say this is simply saying they were buried alive because no where in God’s law is the punishment for a sin being buried alive.
God can punish wickedness however He likes. The wages of sin is death, and the mode doesn't have to be specified beforehand. As far as I can recollect, the Torah never says that venomous snakes are a punishment for law-breaking either.
I answered to hastily the other night, I retract what I said because it is a stupid argument!
However, I can’t answer just yet, because I need to do my research, otherwise you’ll eat me alive.
That is true. He will.
Have you read The Chronicles of the Nephilim by Brian Godawa? It's a historical fiction series that is based off of The Bible and the Book of Enoch and expresses a lot of similar views to what you just expressed.
Like John said, I don't necessarily think that Sheol (which, based on your short essay, is equivalent to Hades/Hell) is in the Earth. If God is going to create a new Heaven AND a new Earth, what does that say for your supposition?
A. Sheol/Hades is NOT HELL. I put the verses I would use to argue this in the essay. Christ descended into Hades (so far my point isn’t proven), and he brought out some souls. So the elect wouldn’t wait in Hell. At least I don’t think they would, but you could change my mind with biblical proof.
B. That seems to go right along with it! If He’s going to create a new heaven and earth then Sheol won’t be inside the earth anymore! I don’t see that proves your point at all, let me know if I’m misunderstanding.
I think, what you're saying so far is that (correct me if I'm wrong please!), before Christ descended into Hades, Hell & Heaven were basically one place (as Greek mythology has it, there were two separate places in Hades: Tartarus (the pit) and Elysium, where those who had 'done good' would go). When he rose from Hades, he separated Heaven & Hell and created a rift between them as had not existed before?
But Sheol doesn't necessarily need to be inside the Earth. The Bible describes Heaven as 'above us' several times but that doesn't mean that Heaven is literally up there, sitting on a cloud somewhere (of course it could be, for all I know, but I rather think it isn't). Sheol is 'under us' but as John mentioned, Sheol can also mean 'grave.' The fact that it's under us doesn't mean it is literally inside the Earth beneath us.
I sound really stupid to myself right now haha.
Christ descended into hades and ascended into heaven, so they are different. One is below and one is above. No? I’d be curious to know how you explain that! (This is a good conversation!)
Could you rephrase your question please? I'm not sure which part you want me to explain! (This is a good conversation.)
I just want to know how’d you explain Christ descending into hades and ascending into heaven.
This is super fascinating 😂 I never thought about it that way. My first instinct is to laugh at the argument, but logically it actually makes sense. I think I have such a knee-jerk reaction to it simply because I'm a modern-day evangelical still trying to work my way out of the distinction between "space" and "heaven", "alien" and "spiritual being", and a bunch of other things materialism has twisted.
I will say however, I've read the Space Trilogy. And if Lewis taught me anything in those books, it's that the spiritual realm is much closer and more real than any of us realize. We've all been effectively blinded by the "Enlightenment" and the advance of materialism.